PYA--Push Your Ass--Until You Change
- Deric Hollings

- Dec 19, 2025
- 8 min read

In both my personal and professional life, I practice Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT). This psychotherapeutic modality was developed by the late humanist psychologist, among other philosophical identifiers, Albert Ellis. Personally, his model of self-help is useful.
Occasionally, I take time to reflect upon interviews featuring Ellis. Unlike the value of reading his written work, I find it helpful to consider how Ellis responded to in-person dialogue. Generally, I laugh at his candid and somewhat unconventional responses.
For instance, I read the transcript of an interview with Ellis that was conducted by humanist psychologist Myrtle Heery. Before going any further, thank you to Ali Miller for transcribing the interview! Now, here’s the part of the exchange I found humorous and helpful (pages 60-61):
Ellis: Well, my original research was on love. I wrote my Ph.D. thesis on love and Columbia University thought it was too sexy so they made me write another thesis. But love consists of attachment, emotional attachment, caring for another person.
Now most of it, as I said before, is conditional. Unfortunately you love because the person has a good nose, good eyes, or intelligence, etc., so a great deal of it is conditional. And you don’t love wholly, you don’t love forever. You also, if you’re a normal human, love other people other than the one beloved that you’re mated to.
And of course you love your children, we assume, so love means that you get attached and care for and you like the other person to be caring for you, but you don’t deify and obsess about it—obsessive-compulsive in love as the movies show you’re supposed to do, to think of one person for the next 50 years forever. That’s nonsense of the worst sort.
Heery: It sounds like you’re trying to move the emotion of love right through the brain and have some control over this emotion.
Ellis: No, you’re doing that because you have a bigoted point of view which I can’t go into now, so you’re seeing me, what I say, this whole interview in your semi-mystical notion, so don’t say what I’m trying to. You’re trying to do that, but we’re not here to argue the point.
Heery: Oh, excuse me, I didn’t realize I was trying to do that. It’s a good thing you pointed that out.
Ellis: You better realize it. It would be nice, it’s not necessary, you could do it for the rest of your life, but you’re obviously very, very biased against what I call sanity, rationality, etc., and you stupidly think—I think it’s stupid— that it’s different from feeling and behavior. As I said in 1956, in my first paper on REBT at the American Psychological Association in Chicago, when you think you also feel and behave. When you feel you also think and behave, and when you behave you also think and feel.
They’re all integrated, and I used the word holistic in integrating. You can’t separate them and you’re trying to get me into some box where—
Heery: Well, you’re not.
Ellis:—you’re separating feeling and—
Heery: I’m glad we clarified this, because this is for the public to hear. There is no separation, it is a holistic that you’re speaking of?
Ellis: Yes, and therefore it would be better if you used many rational techniques, very, very forcefully and vigorously, many emotionally, evocative, experiential techniques also forcefully and many behavioral techniques that get people to PYA—Push Your Ass—until you change, keep changing and stay changing, because it’s partly biologically against the human condition to give up your demands, commands, shoulds, oughts, and keep your preferences.
People are allergic to doing that. When they feel the desire of something strongly, then they make it a must. They do it, because that’s their nature to do it.
I think it was important for me to have left that entire portion of the interview intact, because it provides a flavor of Ellis’s unique style, as “some people consider Ellis to be audacious and even obnoxious” (page 11). Personally, Ellis’s temperament was an attractive component of REBT.
He and I share a number of similarities; although, I understand that many people may not appreciate these shared personality traits. Nevertheless, I’m glad that Ellis was forthcoming in the interview regarding a need to “PYA—Push Your Ass—until you change” (page 61).
This is precisely my approach to REBT, as I advocate personal responsibility and accountability (collectively “ownership”) concerning failure or success with the modality. I can’t – and indeed won’t – do for clients what clients are able to do for themselves.
As an example, I draw upon Ellis’s remark about “nonsense of the worst sort” (page 60) concerning the presumed inability to love more than one person at a time. Actually, it’s quite possible to love one’s intimate partner while romantically loving another individual.
If a client uses irrational beliefs to self-disturb over one’s spouse who is simultaneously in love with someone else, then I’d encourage my client to take personal ownership for one’s own reaction to the undesired matter. Besides, it’s “nonsense of the worst sort” to demand otherwise.
Of course, not everyone wants to claim personal ownership for self-disturbed outcomes. It’s easier to blame others for one’s own unpleasant reaction. Yet, PYA—Push Your Ass—until you change! I’m not advocating pushing someone else’s ass. Push…Your…Ass!
Alas, I concur with Ellis, as he stated, “People are allergic to doing that” (page 61). Therefore, some people will altogether reject REBT, try to trap a professional REBT practitioner in a proverbial box of shared delusion, or make asstastic excuses for not taking personal ownership.
So be it! As for me and people with whom I’ve worked—those individuals who have done the work necessary to experience lasting and effective change—we’ll continue holding ourselves personally responsible and accountable for our own reactions to undesirable events. And you?
If you’re looking for a provider who tries to work to help understand how thinking impacts physical, mental, emotional, and behavioral elements of your life—helping you to sharpen your critical thinking skills, I invite you to reach out today by using the contact widget on my website.
As a psychotherapist, I’m pleased to try to help people with an assortment of issues ranging from anger (hostility, rage, and aggression) to relational issues, adjustment matters, trauma experience, justice involvement, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, anxiety and depression, and other mood or personality-related matters.
At Hollings Therapy, LLC, serving all of Texas, I aim to treat clients with dignity and respect while offering a multi-lensed approach to the practice of psychotherapy and life coaching. My mission includes: Prioritizing the cognitive and emotive needs of clients, an overall reduction in client suffering, and supporting sustainable growth for the clients I serve. Rather than simply trying to help you to feel better, I want to try to help you get better!
Deric Hollings, LPC, LCSW
References:
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